Behind the Bar with Nicky Kong
Last year I sat down with Nicky Kong, owner of Cat in the Glass, an online bottleshop for both beer and cider. Nicky is also now steering the ship at Manchester Cider Club, one of the original cider clubs made to showcase producers and bring them into cities.
Based in Manchester, Nicky is an integeral part of the beer and cider scene.
Nicky has judged the International Cider Championships, been on panels at CraftCon, and in 2020 was named one of Pellicle’s Trendsetters and Trailblazers for the year ahead. In our interview we talked about starting a business in the pandemic, cider clubs, and what Nicky would like to see for cider in the future.
How did you get into hospitality?
Nicky: My background is actually in hotels, I worked in hotels since I was 16. My degree was in hospitality management, and then I got into a graduate management program with Shire Hotels. I did my food and beverage management training with them. They had a food and drink academy, so that’s where I did level one and two WSET in wine. Both food and drink were my passions to begin with, but I just slowly moved towards all drinks.
Helen: So when I first met you, you were still working at The Crown and Kettle?
Nicky: Yeah, I managed that pub for four years. I’ve always wanted my own business, but then when lockdown happened I thought…what better time to start a business than in a pandemic?!
Helen: Did you get into cider through the Crown and Kettle or did you already have an interest in it?
Nicky: I first got into cider around five years ago when I went on a trip to Cornwall and ended up trying a few different ciders. I thought “Oh, this isn't actually as bad as I thought it'd be, I quite enjoy this!”. I think it was a Fowey Valley cider, their Castledore, and I brought it back with me. Dick and Cath used to come into the pub quite a bit and drink the ciders we had in. I loved chatting to them, so I said, “what do you think of this?” and let them try it. Then we got talking about doing a cider event at the pub.
At that point, I didn’t really know anything about cider, but they educated me in the basics, and we got Albert Johnson from Ross-in-Wye Cider up to do a tasting as well. I still remember the first time I tried their brilliant Raison D’etre 2016 - that was a key moment for my cider conversion! Albert was running the Ross Cider Club at the time, so I suggested to Dick that we try something similar in Manchester. He went off and started emailing different producers to see if they’d be interested in coming to Manchester to do a talk and tasting and every single one said yes, and so Manchester Cider Club was born.
Helen: How quickly into lockdown was it that you decided to turn them into online tastings? I remember Dick and Cath both saying before how integral you were to that process because they didn’t understand how to do it!
Nicky: It was definitely teamwork, we locked down in March so didn’t have the April cider club, which was supposed to be with Nightingale. The first online session was with Gabe Cook, and then we just had one every month after that, and now it just keeps getting bigger and bigger. Now we run it as a mix of in person and online which seems to be working at the moment.
Helen: It’s really nice because you’ve got both communities, but in terms of accessibility it’s wonderful because neither me or Rachel would have been able to attend an in person Manchester event, so from our perspective we loved having that opportunity to attend.
Nicky: If the demand is there, then we'll always do an online one, and if it starts petering off we’ll have a rethink.
Helen: Where are the in person ones happening at the moment?
Nicky: Currently Beer Nouveau, which is great, as Temperance Street Cider are based there. I do like the idea of cycling it around different venues as well. For example Chris from Dunham Press has set up The Cider Barn, and it’d be nice to do meetups at different places too.
Helen: The sort of theme for your virtual tours in 2021 was Manchester Cider Club on tour, but it'd be cool for you to really go on tour.
Nicky: Actually, before COVID hit we were planning on taking Manchester Cider Club up to Kendal, so hopefully one day it’ll happen!
Helen: Do you feel like since you started doing MCC, the number of producers is growing, or at least more producers are coming into social media? Has cider changed a lot over the past three years?
Nicky: Massively, I'm still finding new producers all the time. There’s more barrel aged and wild fermented ciders now as well as beer and cider hybrids.
I think social media presence definitely helps and with CITG, I’d like to think we’ve helped a number of small producers who don’t sell online.
Helen: Do you think it won't be long until you are able to kind of get your own bespoke premises?
Nicky: The plan is still for me to get my own place and start growing the Cat in the Glass brand. I’m very grateful to Steve at Beer Nouveau for all his support lending me the space to get going, it’s been really great.
Helen: It’s lovely too because with Cat in the Glass, you’re now getting to see firsthand cider making and the interest in cider growing.
Nicky: Yeah definitely, and being in a space with Temperance Street Cider, seeing them grow has been really cool and getting to try their cider. The guys have started growing a little orchard over the road, in a disused car park unit. There’s a few trees, and some hops growing too, it’s becoming a lovely little space - so different to how it was before
Helen: Is it just you running Cat in the Glass at the moment?
Nicky: Yeah it is just me, my partner will do some bits every now and again. I’ve got a friend Tom who has helped out loads which has been amazing and there’s lots of people who help me in different ways. Dick and Cath in particular have been so supportive. I’ve been really lucky.
Helen: Do you miss hospitality at all?
Nicky: Yeah, I’ve always enjoyed hospitality. I think it's the customer facing aspect mostly, getting to know your regulars and building relationships. Even throughout lockdown I kept in touch with a few of them. They were asking how I was, how the business was going and things like that. Unfortunately, we lost a couple of the regulars to Covid, which is incredibly sad. It’s been such a hard time for so many people.
I suppose I've not really left the hospitality industry because I'm still working with customers and producers all the time, and when I do events, I really enjoy it. Hence why I'm still doing it I guess!
Helen: You spoke at CraftCon last year, how did that go for you?
Nicky: I think it went well! It was just so interesting to hear the other speakers’ perspectives, and hearing from speakers over in America. How was yours?
Helen: I had a really positive response, which was important. Myself and Ren wanted to make sure that it was quite a relaxed conversation. For some people talking about, diversity and inclusion… they can get a bit clammed up. They either just don't want to engage, or they're just too nervous to. So, we kind of wanted to keep it a bit more informal. I was just very pleased to have been asked, and surprised but I’m always surprised
Nicky: Likewise!
Helen: 2021 was a big year, you were listed as one of Pellicle’s trendsetters and trailblazers for 2021
Nicky: Yes and I was very surprised! Just completely unexpected. So now I feel like I've got a reputation to live up to – no pressure! I think it was Katie that mentioned me, she’s really cool.
Helen: And so during your time in hospitality, you've gone across a variety of different industries in terms of you doing wine and beer and cider. What has your experience been?
Nicky: I think it's gotten better from when I first started. I remember going into my first beer festival, walking in and it was just a sea of men with beards! It felt like people didn’t seem that keen to talk to me. I don’t really know why, and so I found it kind of overwhelming, that's why I set up the Beardless Beer Week, showcasing female brewers and cider makers. And I think since that came around, and I’ve seen Women on Tap and other female led festivals, it has gotten better. It’s still a male dominated industry but not as much as it was and now I feel really welcomed when I go to events.
Helen: Are you involved much with Cider Women as well?
Nicky: Yeah definitely. Not as much as I’d like to, but if they start meet ups again, I’ll definitely try to join where I can. I don’t have too much free time these days though, juggling a full-time job and The Cat and in the Glass!
Helen: Even in the past 12 months I think cider has changed so much, what would you like to see from cider over the next few years? Or what you would like to have happened for cider?
Nicky: I like what Felix has done, getting fine cider into fine dining restaurants. I'd like to see more of that. And having keg conditioned ciders available in more bars. I’ve seen a few places have started doing them but it's not really out there as such. So that would be cool to see. I’d like to get producers like Albert to keep coming up to Manchester, Little Pomona doing kegs...lots of things! It’d be cool for good cider to be more widely available for people, make it even more accessible.
Helen: Do you think with the growing number of Cider Clubs now, that’s going to help?
Nicky: Yes, there are a few set up now. We've got Devon, Birmingham, Brighton… do you guys do one in Cardiff as well?
Helen: Not at the moment, I’d really like to do one but honestly I struggle to manage my time as it is. It is definitely something that needs to happen in Cardiff, it’s just finding someone who would have the time to run it. The Burum to do list just grows and grows.
Nicky: I absolutely get that.
Helen: Every time I’m like “we’ve scaled back, we’re in a sensible position” something else crops up. I’m surprised Rachel and Elliot still want to work with me!
Nicky: I’m always tweaking my website, there is always something more I want to add on.
Helen: I really like your website, it’s so easy to use, which isn’t easy with such a large range
Nicky: That’s good to know! I try to keep the beer and cider balanced at 50/50, the whole point of me setting it up was because the beer market felt absolutely saturated with online bottle shops, but for cider you had maybe a handful of good ones, but I think for me, it was about finding somewhere that did both. I wanted to have good beer and cider in one place so that people didn’t have to pay two different places for couriers.
Wine is something I want to add to the collection at some point, but it’s a bit early right now. If I was adding wine it’d have to be a very carefully curated list, rather than the same amount of beer or cider I have. Mainly because I’d literally have nowhere to put it!
Helen: Do you think when you get your own space, you'd like to have a bottle shop? Or is it more just having a kind of unit and running an online shop?
Nicky: A bottle shop with the option to drink in, so a bottle shop / bar. People could come in and buy takeout, plus I’ll still have the online option, and then drink in as well to keep me busy.
Helen: Where did you get the name from?
Nicky: We fostered our first cat Wotsit in April 2020 and we were initially just going to look after him for a few weeks, and find him a forever home after that, but after two weeks we decided we wanted to keep him. And because I'm terrible at thinking of names, I was looking through photos and just found on WhatsApp a picture of him sticking his head into a glass during one of the Manchester Cider Clubs and the name just happened! He was our little brand icon.
Helen: That’s brilliant
Nicky: Yeah, the website developers we use, Boom Solutions have been brilliant with our visuals for the name. Kev, he's so creative with all the branding. They've been really great, and have cartooned Wotsit… Although the name does confuse people, I keep seeing it called The Cat in the Hat!
Helen: Before we wrap up I just wanted to ask you what your favorite places to eat and drink are in Manchester?
Nicky: I really like Dishoom, you can’t go wrong with Dishoom. Also Mana, I’ve been a few times now and the food is absolutely spot on, the wine pairings are on point too. I’ve always struggled with wine pairings when I go for meals, I think often I just think I could pick better myself! But I think there’s some that just don’t work for my palate, I know everyone's taste is different so pairings are tricky but I think that Mana have really nailed it.
In terms of drinks I really like Salut, they’ve got wine, cheese boards and a bit of charcuterie. I also love Bundobust, it’s one of my favourites for beer and food. We’re really lucky in Manchester with our food and drinks scene and it’s great to be part of it.
