Behind the Bar with Rival Brewing

Rival Brewing are a father and son nano-brewery based in Cardiff who have been operating for over three years. Duncan and Sam Higgitt are well loved within the Cardiff beer community, and rightly so.

I am lucky enough to work with Sam at my full-time bar job, both on the bar and in the kitchen. Which means I have gotten to know the Higgitt family relatively well. They’re open, down to earth and incredibly welcoming.

Their beers have been a huge part of my personal journey into the world of craft beer, when we decided to make March our Welsh drinks month, I knew right away that I wanted to speak to Rival. In this interview we talk about their journey, their recent rebrand, surviving as a small business during a global pandemic, future goals and the drinks industry in Cardiff.

Duncan (left) and Sam (right)

How did you both get into beer? 

Sam: I was studying to do engineering, after going through college the passion I had for it dropped off completely. I was like ‘alright, well I'm not going to go to like Uni but I'm also not going to rush into something else, I'm just going to get a job and take a year off’. I got a job in The Lansdowne Pub in Cardiff the day after my 18th birthday, I couldn’t pour a pint, I couldn’t even make a gin and tonic. From there onwards, I started trying my best to learn what the products were, and the Lansdowne are really good for traditional cask ales. I started figuring out what kinds of beer I liked, I definitely didn’t like a lot of hop forward beers at the time. Then went on to work at the Tiny Rebel bar which was known as Urban Taphouse at the time. Then 10 months down the line ended up working at the Brewdog Cardiff bar, and that job drove my passion for beer, and I didn’t necessarily want to be behind a bar but I wanted to make sure I was working with beer in some capacity, whether that’s producing or selling.

Duncan: I've been a builder, a soldier, a journalist, and my last job was working in the National Assembly. As Sam said, he started work at the Lansdowne and began bringing home beers. The first hoppy beer I remember drinking was a Tiny Rebel. I had always been a lager man. I'd lived in Germany for nearly four years, and love German beer, I was getting towards 50 and still trying to work out what I wanted to do in my life. We went down to the Left-Handed Giant warehouse, before they had brewpub and were still cuckoo brewing, in April 2016. We had just started our day down in Bristol, sat outside with pints in the sun, and I said “What do you want to do?” And he said “I quite fancy starting a brewery” and I said “Oh, that sounds good. Can I join you?”. From there we had the concept of Rival, including the name, in about five minutes. About a year after that, I was able to leave the Assembly, and basically crack on with it.

Helen: I mean how did you start? I’m not sure if I’d be able to go from not working in a brewery to owning a brewery, it’s a pretty impressive jump.

Sam: I had a basic grasp of the brewing process. I had been down to other breweries and I had sort of seen how they operated, particularly people like Crafty Devil. I understood roughly how it should work and from there I delved into some homebrew websites. We managed to come across a 50 litre brewkit. We cleared out all the space in my garage where the brewery still is - that took ages because it was filled with a lot of rubbish and junk. Once we gave it a kind of lick of paint we made this crudely built staircase out of pallets to help us gravity brew. We mostly just went online and looked at what we could incorporate with the space that we had. 

Duncan: We had a lot of help from Crafty Devil, we were able to go speak with Adam and Rhys to pick their brains on the business side of things, all the kind of stuff you need to worry about, like you know, the tax man and environmental health. They were incredible weren't they?

Helen: What was your first beer?

Sam: Citra Smash. A single malt and single hop, hence the name Smash. I think we went for Maris, Otter and Citra hops. We had no idea about water... and there was a lot of yeast in suspension… it wasn't great. I think it took us about 18 to 20 brews until we felt confident enough that it was decent enough.

Helen: When did you start selling your beers when you could?

Duncan: That was the November, at St Fagans market. It was freezing, we were right at the end, but we did sell some beer. The first guy that bought beer from us still buys our beer.

Sam: We were at markets for the first six months to a year, which helped us meet customers and get that base. It also helped us work on improving and was great for engaging in that way. 

Helen: How has it been working together? I know that it’s obviously not just you both, pretty much all of the Higgitts have been involved in some capacity but I mean it’s a pretty interesting business dynamic right?  

Sam: Most of the time, it is surprisingly incredibly smooth. When I was growing up, we used to argue all the time, about everything. Since we started Rival, I can think of maybe three or four disagreements? 

Duncan: I can only think of one where I got in a car and drove off. And then came back about half an hour later feeling like a bloody fool. I think the secret to it working well is to forget that he's my son. I mean, he's an adult now at any rate, but it is important to remember that he is an equal partner. And if he says no to something, then that’s a no. A lot of the time, I find I'll say something to him, and he's already there. I mean largely, we agree on a lot of stuff, which is very helpful.

Sam: When we started this. I was like ‘Is this going to work? Am I just going to end up wanting to kill him?’ But surprisingly, if anything, I think it basically made us a lot closer anyway. Before we started Rival, I'd been living by myself for a few years, so I’d see you maybe once or twice a month, but now I think I see him more than any other person. So that's quite nice.

Helen: Is it still just the two of you for now?

Sam: Until we can start scaling up a little bit. Particularly with the way the last year's gone. We’ve sort of tried to switch our approach of trying to grow, to basically make sure we survive, and adapting in certain ways to do so making sure we're not going to fade away because of COVID. It has done that unfortunately, to quite a lot of businesses in the last year. Our main goal has been just to make sure we get through this and come out really strong. 

Until we can get out of this, I think it’s going to just be the two of us for another couple of years.

Duncan: We are really lucky to have people who want to help us

Sam: Obviously our family who have dedicated free labour to us. Mainly though Jacob Smith who we essentially just pay in beer. I'm pretty sure he's happy with the arrangement. I would of course like to pay him!

Helen: I think that you have done a really good job of adapting in lockdown. I know that you have been working on things like canning, and you redesigned your website.

Sam: For years, we have been fighting with the floor that we had, because we’re brewing in a 1950s garage. We realised we needed a drain in the middle of the brewery, so we have been building a drain in the brewery ourselves. 

Duncan: It’s a project that is really exciting to us but totally boring to everyone else.  

Sam: The main issue we had last year was that almost all of our sales were keg sales. It’s been a big shift this year to canning, bottling and figuring out where our new market for our beer is. We redesigned our website, finally got it through the licensing so we can now start selling our beer online and start doing local deliveries. We're currently sorting plans to get couriers to deliver further afield.

A lot of it has been kind of shifted towards rebranding and refocusing. 

Duncan: We’ve had a few sessions with Emina and she was very good at focusing on who we are, what we're about and that led directly to the rebrand. We are seeing increased recognition. As Sam said, it's all about just making sure we can survive the pandemic, you know. It didn't help that I had COVID last month.

Helen: How are you feeling now?  

Duncan: The main phase of it wasn't that bad. It was kind of about a week of fever but afterwards, it was just the tiredness, it just took ages... you know, you would spend two hours in the brewery and have to come home just absolutely exhausted. So that's taken time to build up, but it could have been a lot worse, and it has been a lot worse for people. So we count our blessings.

Helen: I’m so glad that you’re doing better, and that Rival aren’t just surviving but are doing well. The pandemic has been so hard on so many businesses, but the one positive that I have seen is that people are having to stop and think about their brand identity, I guess. There has been a bit more time for folk to stop and either rebrand or reaffirm their foundations. 

Duncan: I think that our beers have benefitted from that as well, because we’re not brewing anywhere near as much as we were, but it means we have more time to look at books, websites and consult with people. The beers are better for that. We did a mammoth tasting session last night - which I am slightly feeling this morning - but we were pleasantly surprised. Which… well we are renowned for being our own worst critics but it’s important to acknowledge the progress.

I remember Adam from Crafty Devil saying “always be brewing the best beer that you can brew” we live by that mantra, because it's a way of accepting that there are limitations to your knowledge and experience, but at the same time, still doing the best that you possibly can.

Sam: We are constantly tweaking everything we do when it comes to brewing beer. Before the pandemic my time was split 50/50, so 50% of the time I was with Rival but then 50% of the time I was at my bar job. So for a while I was working on limited brainpower. Whereas now I can put all of that energy into Rival. It’s been really nice this past year to actually think about recipes and just think about what I’d like to make. We’ve made a lot of fun stuff in the last couple of months, our Imperial Stout was a lot of fun to make and very messy to clean up. 

Duncan: It’s not bad at all either, for a first effort of something that high ABV.

Sam: I think we're strongest we've done prior to that was 8%. It was our last beer that we brewed in 2020 and we were like we want to bring something exciting that can launch us into next year. 

Duncan: I think we should also say a big thanks to Damian from Emperors brewery because, we thought about what we're going to do, and Sam messaged him, and he just said “give me a call now” and he was really, really helpful.

Sam: I mean, he is such a nice bloke, I've only ever met him a handful of times. Literally it was like I got a river of knowledge just flowing through my head. So it was really nice.

Helen: Where would you like to see Rival go in the future, like looking further down the line will we have a Rival brewpub?  

Duncan: My dream would be a brew pub with an area out of the back, where people can sit - I'm playing fantasy breweries here - but you know, glass so people can see into the brewery. We have endless discussions about what food we would do. We'd quite fancy a little dance floor in there as well, be able to do some events, with DJs. What I’m looking for is more of those American places where they don't have the formality of British setting… I don't know that’s a million miles away from what you want?

Sam: No, I don't think we're ever going to be the kind of brewery that wants to be massive, our main goals are brewing the best beer we can and being a very, like local brewery, you know, so we want Rival to be associated with Cardiff and South Wales. Obviously, we want to sell beer to the rest of the UK and to other parts of the world, but our focus is on our area. Having a brew pub somewhere in Cardiff that can accommodate the fact that we could sell our beer directly to our customers from our bar and be able to brew it on site would be absolutely perfect.

Duncan: We're also interested in bringing people over from the kind of traditional lager culture because if the craft beer world is the moon then the British drinking market is like the sun, you know, it's huge. We could be taking local people and converting them from what they've been drinking over to what we have. I think, that if we were to have a place, and I think it is important to have a place, because I do think that does have a benefit in terms of your profile and things like that. I mean, even if you look at social media look at Beer Riff, the amount of followers they have got compared to kind of us. And I’m not taking anything away from them with that, because they are an excellent brewery, but I think having a location helps as well. Being able to draw in people that have reservations about craft beer, to make it an easy, relaxed place where they can come in and just, stay as long as possible and just get them drinking some good local beer, you know?

Sam: Yeah, that's my goal as well. I really want to focus massively on where we are locally. I think that's the biggest goal for me is to make Rival a local brewery and the best local brewery in Cardiff.

Helen: I think that Cardiff, and South Wales generally has so many great things going on, but also so much potential. At Burum we really want to support and nurture the drinks scene around us, and bring new people in too. Especially when we get overlooked so often, drinks media for the most part focuses on London and Manchester. Only good things can come from better communication and a closer drinks community in Cardiff.

For you both, how have you found the beer scene in Cardiff? 

Duncan: Well, I think I think there's two facets to that. You know, going back to what you were saying then about location and stuff. And I think, if you look at where some of the very best breweries are based in the world, so Hill Farmstead, Omnipollo and Lervig are all not in locations you’d expect. I was born in London, I think Londoners are fooling themselves if they think that they have the best of everything because they don't, but I grew up sort of witnessing the whole punk DIY thing, you know, this whole idea of making something yourself and not really caring what London and all the rest of them think. 

Currently Cardiff has a real burgeoning professional class population with disposable income. Cardiff has become increasingly expensive to live in - I mean, the house I'm talking to you from was bought 21 years ago and it’s now worth three, almost four times the price we paid for it. Prices have skyrocketed in Cardiff, so people can't afford to live there. Look at places like Two Dudes in Treorchy, they’re a fairly new addition but they’re making a go there. There’s a couple of businesses in Bridgend, Porthcawl, places like that, where people have more disposable income and want to buy local beer. 

You also have to not assume that people have tried certain beers, so we produce a lot of West Coast IPAs and we’ve managed to capture people with them. You go to the Lansdowne and a lot of the customers are still wary of the beer that you can't see through. Certainly in places like that and Spit and Sawdust go through huge quantities of West Coast, you know. People don't see it as such a big step from lager, you know, and it isn't really. So it's a question of kind of, not specifically looking at the beer scene as it were, but looking at who could be buying your beer, and then finding them. Hopefully in order to convert them into, loyal customers, you know? 

Sam: I find Cardiff to be interesting because, I moved here when I was 4 and it’s bonkers to me how much this city has changed, even in the 21 years I’ve lived here. A lot of independent places didn't exist 20 years ago, even as far as 10 years ago, so it's great to see this kind of thing emerging. It's also difficult because as soon as these things start to emerge, and Cardiff starts to pick up, it also gathers the attention of bigger business and chains. But I think that's been the one thing that's really helped us in Cardiff is that, almost everyone who we know that runs a business, knows someone else who runs a business, and are often willing to help one another, which is a great thing.  

It'd be great to see Cardiff and sort of improve in that way where, if you're a small, independent business, you're not having to spend a fortune to sort of set up in the city centre, where there are other restaurants and more going on. That’s sort of my biggest concern, we'd love to have a brewpub somewhere like the city centre, but we know that the way things are going, there's no way we could even afford that.

Helen: I mean I don’t want to say anything controversial but the prices on spaces in the centre of Cardiff are quite frankly criminal, but then they say they want new businesses and want to help local businesses etc. How do they expect any interesting new ventures to appear in town when it’s so expensive? People can’t afford houses, so I mean they definitely can’t afford business rates. 

I’ve lived here for eight years now and St Mary’s Street and even some of the spaces in the arcades are like a revolving door. You get attached to spaces, like Small Bar, and next thing you know they are gone. That is the saddest part for me about the drinks scene in general in Cardiff, is that it’s always one step forward and five steps back. 

Duncan: I mean, I've complained about Cardiff city centre in the piece that I wrote before and, I do understand that councillors are under financial strain, they're not getting the money that they need... but if they want diversified city centres, then they need to do something about the rates. Apparently, they have a policy of presuming against more alcohol establishments in the city centre. So if you want one, you've got to work your socks off to get in. What they're not looking at when they do approve them is who they are aimed at. There needs to be a more varied offering, so that it caters for everybody, and that people like my father come to the city centre.

I think local breweries can play a part in that by building followings, but the problem is at the moment we just can't afford to go there at all. I can't think of a single customer we have that doesn't complain about the business rates to us, you know, and it's taken some of them out in the past. A more progressive attitude from the council would certainly be helpful. They talk all the time about local businesses, well give us the tools and we will make this happen for you!

Sam: And there are loads of empty spaces that could be used for something great. I just think if I was a landlord, I'd rather have lower rates and be making less money but consistent money, instead of trying to charge ridiculous amounts but not have anybody in there for six months at a time. The council need to play a part in that. 

Helen: I mean look at Cardiff market, it has so much potential. 

Duncan: I think there's an area right in the middle where they can answer the concerns of the older stallholders and meet, you know, the expectations of the newer ones.  Imagine having the market open at night and lit up, it's a glorious space, it would be absolutely fantastic. I think that's all doable, but they just need the will to do it. 

Helen: So where can we currently find your beers, just on your website or are you selling anywhere locally?

Duncan: Yes! We are The Bottle Shop, we are in Cathays Beer House. You can get us through Slizza Pizza, through Dough Thrower, Two Dudes in Treorchy, we’re just about to do a big order up to Pipeworks in Miskin shop. Bottle and barrel in Aberystwyth. 

Sam: There’s also Thomas, the restaurant in Pontcanna, who just came out of the blue for us. Who were like “we love your beer, can we start selling in our restaurant?” we were like “yes absolutely!”. Then there’s Snails Deli in Cardiff and Wally’s in the arcades. Despite the fact that a lot of our main customers who we sell our kegs to haven't been able to buy as much, we have managed to make ties with places that we can sell bottles and cans too. 

Helen: You’ve just started canning though, are you finding a difference in sales between bottles and cans?

Sam: We are actually kind of struggling to get hold of cans! There’s been a shortage for a while now, but we’ve also been evaluating what kind of styles we prefer to be packaging in. For example our Imperial Stout at the moment is in 330ml bottles, as are some of the German beer styles that we've done recently. 

Duncan: Primarily we want to stick with cans when we are able to, we just fall between two stools where it would be insane for us to buy 10,000 cans or something. We don't have any space, but at the same time, obviously not wanting to go to homebrew websites to buy smaller quantities because obviously the markup is a lot higher. 

Sam: That’s been a fun problem to try and dance our way around, we are kind of shifting between both cans and bottles. But hopefully when we get more cans, we'll definitely go back to primarily canning and only using bottles for certain styles. 

Helen: What would you like your next steps to be? You’re still brewing out of Sam’s garage, is that still manageable? 

Sam:  I think we're going to basically hold out until we're past the worst of the pandemic before scaling up, when all of the pubs are open again. Until they start to stay open again it will just be too big of a risk to even think about moving to another place. I think once that’s happened we’ll start finding a bigger space, not just for brewing but for storage. It would be nice for half of the stuff to not be in the house! And the space to potentially have more of an advanced packaging line too, so we’re not doing 500 bottles at a time by hand.    

Duncan: I think immediately, what we need is we need to upgrade one of the tanks because it's too small to yield any meaningful profit. We’d like to find the money to buy a Unitank and then look for some premises that are bigger…. but I mean again it’s prices, you know. Some of the warehouses in Cardiff are really expensive.

Sam: It’s also trying to find the right space to work for us, that we feel is going to be a good place to set up home. I think what we'll get asked a lot is ‘are we going to sell beer there?’, and I don't really want to sell beer from a cold warehouse in the middle of some industrial site. I don't find that to be super appealing, but some people like it I guess. And then from there work towards the dream of finding an even bigger space that we can run a bar in, that people want to go to and have the brewery at the back. 

Helen: That sounds amazing. Just quickly before I let you go, where are your favourite places to eat and drink in Cardiff? 

Duncan: If there’s one place I would recommend it’s Sen, here in Canton. I also really like Shaam Nights over in Roath…. which is weird because neither of them have alcohol licenses! It’s not in Cardiff but I love the Beer Riff space (Swansea), it’s just perfect. 

Sam: It's cozy, it's not too big, not too small. You just want to pitch up on a table and just stay there the entire night. What their setup is, is kind of what we want in the future. I really like La Pantera, the taco place in Cardiff. I love the tiny Italian next to the City Arms… it’s run by this really nice man who clearly just loves owning the place. If you’re unsure about what to order he’ll help you out.

Duncan: Casanova!

Sam: I knew it was something like that. The drinks are really nice, the food is absolutely incredible, that's probably my favorite. If I was gonna pick a restaurant to go have like a nice quiet meal in Cardiff that I would absolutely love and enjoy, it’d be that one. We do have quite a lot of great places to eat in Cardiff. 

Duncan: Yeah. I just can’t wait for the Lansdowne to re-open, that’s what I’m looking forward to most this year.