Behind the Bar with Cider Soms

After having the opportunity to attend the online edition of CiderCon in 2021, I was determined to find out more from people involved in the US cider industry. I came across Mailaika’s work on the Cider Culture publication, the official publication of the American Cider Association, and from there I discovered the blogging duo Cider Soms.

I was thrilled that Mailaika and Sean agreed to speak with me to talk about Cider Soms their work within the American Cider Assosiation, and about the US cider industry at large.

Lets kick off with some introductions

Malaika: My name is Malaika Tyson. I am one half of Cider Soms. We are based in Chicago. I'm mainly writing on the blog about the intersection between cider and wine, and introducing wine lovers to the world of cider.

Sean: My name is Sean Tyson and on the other half of our cider blogging duo. I do a lot of our pictures and our Instagram posts while Malaika does the writing for Cider Culture

Helen: How did you both meet?

Sean: We met in high school. Our families knew each other before we met, but we met on a date. Malaika was actually supposed to be meeting up with one of my friends and I was just kind of tagging along. By the end of the night she and I kind of clicked instead. We started dating, and then in college we split up. Then after college, we got back together. And now we have two kids, and we'll be celebrating our 16 year anniversary in September 2022.

Helen: That’s amazing, how did you both get into cider? Is Cider Soms a side project or do you do it full time?

Malaika: Separate to full time jobs. It is a cash negative hobby. I'm a patent attorney. 

Sean: And I work in finance - stock market regulation.

Malaika: We got into cider because we don't drink beer. We really started drinking cider around the time that it was getting more popular here in the States. We were living in St. Louis, which is a pretty big beer city with Anheuser Busch being there so everybody would always have beer. We would go to parties and people would have wine. One of our friends brought us cider and I was like ‘oh, this is nice and different’. When we moved back to Chicago we got introduced to Seattle cider and Virtue cider and there was so much more cider to start exploring.

All of our friends who were cider curious started asking us for our cider recommendations. We started taking notes, and my sister who does web design offered to help us build a website so we could keep track of these notes. 

Cider Soms started as notes and reviews but then as time went on, we stopped doing reviews. I felt that the cider community is so small, I didn’t want to review something in and dissuade someone from drinking it, because I might not like something that tastes a certain way but someone else might like it. We decided it was better to highlight the individuals, and talk about the people who are making cider, how they're making it and telling a broader story.

Helen: How have the past 18 months been for you both? 

Malaika: Actually, we've been doing more so the freelance work with Cider Culture started. In having an editor and a deadline, it pushed us to do a little bit more. A lot of what we had been doing was based on where we had been travelling, because I travel a lot for work, and we usually take our kids places. 

Since we weren't travelling and going to festivals, and meeting people that way, it has been nice to kind of connect with people in the cider community and get to know more about them through the Q&A. The upside with people being more familiar with Zoom and the other virtual platforms, really allows us to kind of extend our reach. And I'm sure it'll keep going, because we can talk to anyone anywhere at almost any time. So it's been nice.

Helen: Absolutely, I completely agree. For me, conducting these interviews has been an awesome opportunity to meet people, especially when travelling costs money. I never thought I’d ever be able to attend CiderCon but having it be virtual this year was incredible. That’s actually how I stumbled across you both. How did you get involved with the American Cider Association?

Malaika: We always volunteered as media, or we always got radio passes for CiderCon, so through that, we got to start to meet people. And then CiderCon in Oakland is when they kicked off the Anti-Racism, Equity and Inclusion committee. That’s when we started to get more involved on the committee leadership side, kind of trying to help drive change and Sean has been extremely active on the committee.

Sean: On the ACA Diversity, Equity and Inclusion committee, there's a subcommittee. And so what we've been trying to do is work on getting more people of colour that are in the cider industry to actually be speakers at CiderCon and have a different perspective as far as presentations for actually the speakers. You tend to see your stereotypical cider guy, you know, a white guy with a beard who's on a farm and there’s a lot of other people in the cider industry who are at a lot of different levels. We're just trying to get them involved. And, you know, see if we can get more participation for speakers and for attendees. So right now it's a lot of outreach and just trying to tell people “we have this going on out here, and you're welcome. You should come, your perspective and viewpoints are valid and needed” so, we'll see, hopefully we can get some change for the next CiderCon and have more of a variety of people and speakers and attendees.

Helen: That’s definitely something that I noticed looking at the schedule last year, there were people scheduled to talk about DE&I who were either not in cider, maybe in wine or beer, or not in the drinks industry at all. I think we’re in a similar position in the UK though, but I think even just getting people who have transferable knowledge that we can be inspired by, it’ll mean that we can get our industries into better positions. 

How has your experience been in cider so far?

Malaika: It’s a supportive space, I think that’s the one thing that we've felt about cider making. I think because there's not as many secrets as you would necessarily find in beer, and maybe not some of the pretentiousness that you would find in winemaking. As a result, it's a younger community, and people are very supportive, very collaborative, always kind of willing to talk and extend their hand. It’s fun. 

It’s just continuing to work on being inclusive. Because still, like any other industry, where you have a huge economic kind of upfront, because you have to have access to either trees or apples or juice... there's not that many minority farmers. Then you look and you don't see as many people who look like you. It is working on being inclusive, and like what Sean was saying, through the Anti-Racism, Equity and Inclusion Committee we see that this is a problem and we need to kind of bring people up. There are so many avenues in cider, and so many opportunities, we just need to introduce them to people. 

Everyone always says, like cider is 10 years or five years behind craft beer, as the space starts to become more inclusive, those people start seeing like “oh, I can make cider because I have fermentation equipment, I get some access to some apples” and it’ll progress that way too. I still think it's supportive and welcoming, we've always felt like it's a nice, warm, welcoming community.

Sean: But the thing is you have to kind of be in the community, to know that. That's another wall that you hit, where if you're on the outside, because of the visuals, you would think that it's not very inclusive, and that it's not really a space for you. But, you know once we got more involved, we were like ‘oh you guys are really welcoming!’ so now that we're here, we can say yes, it is very welcoming. But you know, it's just trying to get that perception across outside the community.

Helen: That's quite similar to UK cider too. I actually work in beer, but I've become way more invested in cider, because of the way that the people inside are. 

So what is cider education like in the US, like if I was in America, and I want to learn about cider? Where would I start?

Melissa: So with the ACA and the Certified Cider Professional Program, they're getting that basic information out to the public a lot easier than what it was when we were getting involved. It was a while before we really started delving into what apples were being used. Not everybody was using the heirloom apples and more traditional cider apples, there were a lot of culinary apples being used because that was what was available. But the ACA is like a key spot for figuring out where to get that information. 

A lot of people are starting to write, again, a lot more books. I just picked up one from the cider Institute of America, How to Taste Cider. And it's really interesting, because when I was in graduate school, I got to take a class on wine appreciation, which sadly did not count towards my GPA. But it was a nice class. It was interesting that it was being taught to like college kids. 

For the average consumer, the person who wouldn't have the industry inside information that you could get somewhere like CiderCon. There are the continued publications that are being put out, and even on Serious Eats, which is a food website here, they've started doing things like “these are the four different categories of cider apples” and so even if you're not knowing them by name, but you're tasting these things, identifying low acid, low tannin will help. 

Helen: Have either of you taken the Certified Cider Professional course?

Malaika: So I am a Level 1 Certified Cider Professional. They've only offered the Level 2 test twice, maybe even just once, because it has to be offered in person at CiderCon. So it’s almost like testing to be a Sommelier when you get to the next level, because you have to do blind tastings and identify the varietals, like what you do for wine. There's very few people who've made it to Level 2. I don't think I would pass because I'm not making it and not tasting it in that way.  

Helen: What do you both have coming up, more writing or travelling (if that’s possible)?  

Malaika: Yeah. Well, we'll eventually start travelling to cider places again. Well, I don't know how many we will end up hitting this year, because typically, we would have already started to plan those trips. We will go to Michigan, there's at least three or four places that we will visit within Michigan since that's not that far of a drive away. As far as flying places, that probably will start up next year. So either we'll meet people in Chicago, or we'll just continue to do the writing through this virtual format.

My goal typically is to get out probably three posts every two months. One of the things that I have set up is a Google Alert to look for new places, new cideries that are opening. It’s been promising to see that there have been a handful of new cideries that are opening, or even wineries that are offering broader selections of ciders in their tasting rooms right now. So hopefully that continues. I think that's kind of our plan. Yeah, festivals will start back up and hopefully, by the end of this year, there'll at least be a few festivals that we'll be able to go to.

There’s only one, maybe two festivals that are dedicated purely to cider. The rest are a mix of cider and beer type festivals. The cider areas have kind of grown, there's one we've gone to in the park, and it's actually nice for us, because all the cider is under one tent. 

They tend to be that mix where it's a beer focused event, but then they do invite some cideries to come in. Iris is a cidery/brewery here, and there’s Virtue, their founder was a brewer before so they’re releasing a beer. I think that there are places that are well known for cider, who are starting to kind of introduce those things that will be invited to those festivals too.

Helen: What would you both like to see from cider over the next few years?

Sean: I think, to be honest, just more representation for people of colour. Being involved in cider, after all this talk that we've done about inclusion and how welcoming everything is, you can still come across those stories where people have really, really horrible experiences. It’s one of those things where, at least from my perspective, you don't want it to become a situation where you think that these things aren't going on just because you don't hear about them on the surface, anymore. We've had so much positive in front of the negative that you think that there's all positive. Like “look at all these big changes that are coming” but then those other stories kind of get kind of drowned out. 

I have a good feeling that that's coming in the next couple of years, from the work that the ACA is doing, but like I said, being on the inside, you'd kind of see that there is still a little bit of hesitation, a little bit of pushback, a lot “I just don't know what to do or where to go or where to find these people”. It's like “well, they're here, if you look for them, you can find them”. So hopefully in the next couple of years, the way we've been talking is the way that it will become for more people.

Malaika: Yeah, I would echo everything Sean was saying. On the cider making side, I think what some of the cider makers have started to do, and continue to do, is reduce the amount of sugar that is in the cider. But then adding in some fruits like raspberries, peaches, blueberries, so you have these dry, juicy ciders to introduce more people who would be on the fence of drinking something. Because they do want something sweeter, but then they drink it and realise not everything has to be sweet and you can still get these nice fruit flavours. I think it's going to be a good way to continue to introduce cider novices to a wider variety of ciders. 

Sean: I was just telling a guy that I worked with, on Friday, we happened to start talking about cider. And he was like “I just always thought that all ciders were sweet” and I was like “yeah, a lot of people do, but don't let that perception permeate through everything” so I gave him some suggestions of cider makers to start with. I just told him that he should just give them all a try, and that way he'll get a good mix of what the sweet ciders tastes like, but then also see that there are very different kinds of ciders out there. 

Malaika: Circling back to cider education, it'll be great the day that people can kind of talk about ciders, similar to wine. No one's necessarily going to be able to call out a variety, because most of the ciders are going to be blended anyway. But if people can say, oh this is a sweet cider, this is a bittersweet cider, this is a sharp cider. Having that lexicon and understanding it would help, because then people can say like, in the same way they might say “I don’t like sweet wines, I like dry wines” they can then say “I like bittersweet ciders, because it has that nice tannin structure I’m looking for”. 

Eventually, people can kind of get there, but makers and whoever are going to have to start introducing it to people that way as well. It'll be more along the lines of “this is a bittersweet, and it's blended with a little bit of this, so as a result, you're tasting x”. People will keep remembering that as they taste it.

Helen: I definitely agree with you on that, there’s a big discussion happening at the moment in cider about labelling. It’s trying to strike that balance of not wanting to overwhelm people. I mean wine can be very exclusive, especially with labelling. But taking something like bittersweet and acid, terms that are understood without needing to study cider in any way, would be really helpful for consumer education. As much as I want everyone to drink cider and try all cider and engage with it, I want people to enjoy what they’re drinking and consumers should be given that opportunity to make a decision, before they make the wrong one and get put off cider forever. I personally do also want the varieties on the labels, just for my education but also to help give the appropriate respect to those apple or pear varieties, even if it’s just on the back of the label. It’s getting that balance between education and accessibility.

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Finally before I let you go back to your day, who are some of your favourite cider makers right now?

Malaika: Mmmm I'm gonna let you go first. 

Sean: I mean obviously we have to go with Stem right?

Malaika: They are one of our favourites–maybe we’ll lay it out in the progression of where we’ve moved in cider, so Stem would be our favourite modern style cidery. They are super welcoming, super friendly. When we first met them they invited us to come out to Denver, for one of their cider festivals. And we did and it was great. They took us around, and had us meet all these other cider makers. They were very very nice about that. They also introduced us to other makers. Haykin cider is another one we really love. We’d be remiss if we didn’t mention the other Michigan cideries, so Uncle John is a big one, as well as Virtue. 

One of our big favourites is actually not very well known, and it’s hard to get, is Mission Trail. They make jerkum and they make some ciders… Do you know what jerkum is?

Helen: I have not got a clue

Malaika: Jerkum is fermented stone fruits. So they're doing peaches, plums and nectarines. Very delicious. 

Helen: I am writing that down!

Malaika: It’s like fresh, juicy fruit with a little bit of sweetness, but it's really good. It’s just summertime. They do make ciders as well, they have a huge farm. They actually come from a winemaking background, which they didn't tell us. We were out visiting them, and we just happened upon their father's huge winery.

Sean: They were like “this is our dad's wine, but our thing is cider”

Malaika: And they make so much. They just take whatever fruit they've grown and make these really interesting things, they're outside of Paso Robles in California, so because of the wine and the accessibility to some of the wine making vessels, they have a lot of things that are aged in like port barrels, for example. I feel like they are one producer that when we talk to people, we're like “have you ever had this?” and most people are like “no” just because they are really good and hard to find.

Helen: I definitely want to see more about people utilising real fruit, there’s a difficulty in the UK because of tax which I won’t go into because it is super boring and frustrating. But aside from that, I think there’s a stigma around fruited ciders because of those mainstream producers that are using syrups and not real juice. There are still people in the UK cider industry who are so traditional to the point of being like “there should be no fruit in cider whatsoever” which is… an oxymoron if ever I heard one. I think it’s super cool, and important that we utilise the fruit that grows. There are definitely some cool producers who are able to make fruited cider though and are doing it really really well.  

Did you have anything else you’d like to add before we finish? 

Malaika: Nope, we’re going to keep on doing what we're doing. I guess the only thing is… people should not be afraid to ask us to feature them on something, too. I've only occasionally had people actively reach out and advocate for themselves in that way. I think that people shouldn't be afraid to be like “hey, I want to tell my story”